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 REGISTRATION PLATE NOT DISPLAYED IN CORRECT MANNER

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jon61
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PostSubject: REGISTRATION PLATE NOT DISPLAYED IN CORRECT MANNER   Mon Nov 15, 2010 6:59 pm

REGISTRATION PLATE NOT DISPLAYED IN CORRECT MANNER

a ticket....

Also don’t think this just relates to side mount number plates, it could also easily be tail tidy and angled plates...

I have been pulled over by the police on several occasions and nothing has been bought up... just doing checks they say... so off I go...
Anyway this time... begining of October I was on the way to a charity ride with a couple of young riders, I was riding behind one who had a learners licence and “L” plate on his bike, on his 1st motorway extrusion south, we were riding at the reduced required speed in the left lanes of the motorway doing absolutely nothing wrong.
I felt I was pulled over for no reason, and initially the officer wouldn’t confirm why, he had followed me for some time, on the back of previously being stopped for nothing caused me to be anxious, and I started to feel discriminated against. And yes, I do also realise a police officer can require me to stop for a roadside vehicle check at any time.
It was only after a period of time and thought he mentioned why, he then took some photos and mentioned that he would consider action, he didn’t like the way my plate was fixed... and where.
It’s a side mount plate on my custom Sportster I have just finished building...
Now, there are many 100’s maybe 1000’s of motorcycles, boat trailers, trailers and trucks in New Zealand with plates mounted this way....

Anyway a ticket was issued and posted out, I wrote in explaining

I have recently finished rebuilding this motorcycle, 26th August 2010, I have had motorcycles for 35 years and am a motorcycle enthusiast, since completion of this motorcycle I have been pulled over several times by the Police and there have not been any issues, just checks, no issue had never been raised.
During this motorcycle build I have been sure to see that it has meet the law as to compliance for LVV Certification and WOF regs, in which it has both, I had thought I had followed all the requirements to the correct procedures. The company who manufactured the part for me has been building and modifying motorcycles for over 25 years that I know of; at the time of build there was no question of clarity of the number plate... to display in a prescribed manner.
During the LVV Certification and WOF there was also no question on the plate, to display in a prescribed manner.
My whole base line on building this motorcycle unlike some out there is that I wanted it legal so I didn’t have any problem... that is why I thoroughly pursued and complied with LVV Certification, a WOF and Registration.
Also quoting such legislation we found like...
NZ Transport Agency web site; Motorcycle requirements:

In addition to the warrant of fitness, a motorcycle must display a current licence label and a number plate on the back that can be clearly seen

But they have rejected my explanation and want to pursue it and responded with,

Transport (VRL) notice 1995
6 Affixing of registration plates (other than trade plates)
• Registration plates issued for a motor vehicle shall be displayed as follows:
o (a) in the case of a motor vehicle other than a motor vehicle of any of the kinds specified in paragraph (b), one plate shall be displayed on the front of the vehicle and one plate shall be displayed on the rear of the vehicle, and both plates shall be in an upright position and so displayed that every letter, figure, and distinguishing mark on the plate is easily visible:
(b) In the case of any motorcycle, moped, tractor, or trailer, one plate shall be displayed on the rear of the vehicle in an upright position and so displayed that every letter, figure, and distinguishing mark on the plate is easily visible

(What is upright)


up•right –adjective
1.
erect or vertical, as in position or posture.
2.
raised or directed vertically or upward.
3.
adhering to rectitude; righteous, honest, or just: an upright person.
4.
being in accord with what is right: upright dealings.
–noun
5.
the state of being upright or vertical.
6.
something standing erect or vertical, as a piece of timber.
7.
an upright piano.
8.
Usually, uprights. Chiefly Football . the goalposts.
–adverb
9.
in an upright position or direction; vertically.


Which is on a NZ Government web site separate to LVV Certification and WOF regs and NZ Transport Agency legislation...
It would be too easy to have everything in one place?!!

it will affect many if this is their latest campaign to attack motorcycles...

i'm pissed, BAD COP!

i'm going to court!

Twisted Evil


Last edited by jon61 on Mon Nov 15, 2010 8:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: REGISTRATION PLATE NOT DISPLAYED IN CORRECT MANNER   Mon Nov 15, 2010 7:06 pm

Maybe should of had an attitude and you wouldn't have gotten the ticket.

Seemed to work for me, apparently. silent
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PostSubject: Re: REGISTRATION PLATE NOT DISPLAYED IN CORRECT MANNER   Mon Nov 15, 2010 7:44 pm

some cops are just know it alls i got pulled over a few months ago not wearing a seat belt but because i was at work and in the ltsa leg theres a clause for mechanics not needing to were a seat belt while on a test drive provided u need to exit the veichel frequently bla bla
i told him that and he looked at me like i was a fuken retard
gave me the ticket and thats that
thought na ill take it to court long story short got thrown out Cool
i wonder how many people just pay the ticket cose it to expensive to fight it
GO TO COURT fight the system and all that crap
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PostSubject: Re: REGISTRATION PLATE NOT DISPLAYED IN CORRECT MANNER   Mon Nov 15, 2010 7:46 pm

o i just seen on the news they are having a crack down on bikes fuckers
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PostSubject: Re: REGISTRATION PLATE NOT DISPLAYED IN CORRECT MANNER   Mon Nov 15, 2010 7:58 pm

Mate that is bullshit Mad

which way does your number plate sit? some say that if the cop following has to tilt his head to the right its hard to read and he may hit his head on the door so set the plate up for a left head tilt.

Take them on in court too, you cant lose really, they have to prove you are deliberatly breaking the law but because the wording is down to interpretation you arent at fault. the "plate" must be mounted upright, it doesnt say the letters must be displayed upright. like you say trailers have them on the mudgards upright too.

they use the "come to court" to hopefully get you to do the old "cant be bothered ill just pay". stick to the man jon, for all of us
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PostSubject: Re: REGISTRATION PLATE NOT DISPLAYED IN CORRECT MANNER   Mon Nov 15, 2010 8:49 pm

Good on you Jon for taking it to court. If they get away with that it will fuck a lot of people up and will let them in for banning a load of other mods. If the bikes are safe and legal there's no point in giving us shit. They don't seem to bother the gang boys! I usually give cops the benefit of the doubt butI'm beginning to change my mind.

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PostSubject: Re: REGISTRATION PLATE NOT DISPLAYED IN CORRECT MANNER   Mon Nov 15, 2010 8:56 pm

cheers for the comments, yep comfirms my thoughts, yep i'm taking it to court....
i'm so pissed...

and sorry but officers of the law should be over 6 foot and men, able to take a bit of ribbing.... and get on and put up with someone having a bad day.... F$# they need to grow up! they need to be nutural unless i punch them in the head.. then he can take issue! not for a non event that isnt dangerous or safety related and nothing to do with anything.. except revenue gathering for their christmas do...

and yes the WoF guy said that it looks like they are going to target stupad things out of the ordanry.. by some of the questions they are asking..

his definition of faild to display regristration plate in prescribed manner, wrote in and they arn't letting me off..

rules quoted... upright and seen clearly from the rear.... (not side FOOL)(Mr T speak!)

mine being a cruser with side mounted plate, sideways, isnt in the description of upright.. so i'm taking it to court...

i spoke to Wof testing at VTNZ and LVV testing for low volume modified today and they have nothing in their regs, WoF said 20% boat trailers are like that! that they get through in albany....

they both will get back to me and are happy to do me a report and they both are fine giving Wof & Cert passes without a problem....for number plates mounted like this.

i have been told....

_ is fine
l is fine
/ is NOT fine.


so here i go for all the motorcyclists, trailer, horse float and boat people out there...

BAD COP!

Twisted Evil
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PostSubject: Re: REGISTRATION PLATE NOT DISPLAYED IN CORRECT MANNER   Mon Nov 15, 2010 8:59 pm

This from the LVVTA

NZ Police get a RED CARD for RED STICKERS

The NZ Police have been found out making up their own rules- and have had to cancel a number of Pink and Green Stickers, and related offence notices.
A customer (who shall be nameless) was given a Pink Sticker because his car was below 100 mm gound clearance, even though it was Certified, and was at the ride height on the LVV Cert plate.

When the Police Officer was contacted, he advised that they had been told to issue offence notices if the ground clearance was less than 100, regardless of the LVV Plate ride heights.

The Police even wrote a piece in the advice column “NZ Performance Car” magazine explaining their policy.

The Low Volume Vehicle Technical Association contacted the NZ Police and explained the situation, and now the Police have changed their policy, and we expect a retraction in the next issue of the “NZ Performance Car” magazine. The customer who first complained has had his offence notices and Pink Sticker cancelled.

Top marks to the NZ Police out on the road for having to deal with some of the garbage cars out there, and dealing with the attitude they sometimes get. Lets hope that they get some better training on the rules!

If anybody else thinks that they have been wrongly ticketed when their car is LVV Certified, they should contact the Police, and if that doesn’t work, contact the LVVTA
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PostSubject: Re: REGISTRATION PLATE NOT DISPLAYED IN CORRECT MANNER   Mon Nov 15, 2010 9:38 pm

my mate took his 09 883 sporty into westgate testing station on saturday. he has a side mount number plate with model A light and shaved rear guard. they said the tail light was not clearly seen from 45 degrees so he returned with a couple of tiny indicators with red lenses as a stop and tail mounted in the middle of guard of his seat hold down bolt. it passed no problem. NOTHING was said about the number plate being verticle and side mounted..........eat shit cop. take that shit all the way jon.
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PostSubject: Re: REGISTRATION PLATE NOT DISPLAYED IN CORRECT MANNER   Mon Nov 15, 2010 10:02 pm

Hey Jon. I'm not exactly flush but if you need to pull together something for defense funds I'm happy to chip in. This is going to effect us all.

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PostSubject: Re: REGISTRATION PLATE NOT DISPLAYED IN CORRECT MANNER   Mon Nov 15, 2010 10:16 pm

This is why I mounted mine horizontaly to avoid this crap,that said if it passed vinning etc shouldn't they be after the people who passed it and its woffed and regod as far as I'm concerned that is all it needs if you go to court you will win as the beak will see this as a waste of time.
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PostSubject: Re: REGISTRATION PLATE NOT DISPLAYED IN CORRECT MANNER   Mon Nov 15, 2010 10:33 pm

Go for it Jon.
My neighbour sells drugs to the neighbourhood kids. He has blown his mind out with drugs & does some strange things. The other day he was outside yelling 'effing niggers' repeatedly & telling one of our other neighbours to 'eff off' repeatedly. I nearly went over & hit him. (My wife is a NZ born Samoan so I didnt take too kindly to the racist crap).
He is also on parole & not sposed to be drinking. He had a number of drinks at this stage.
Another nieghbour eventually called the cops. They came several hours later. I told them he was breaking his parole restructions. They said to him 'how are you mate' & he yelled a bit at them as well. After they hung around a bit they left and didnt return. he went outside & started yelling again, something about how he was a gangster or something?
So if you can get away with
1. selling drugs
2. yelling cuss words and racist remarks round your neighbourhood
3. breaking parole
then how come they're pickin on things like the way numberplates are mounted?
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jon61
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PostSubject: Re: REGISTRATION PLATE NOT DISPLAYED IN CORRECT MANNER   Mon Nov 15, 2010 10:55 pm

andrewj wrote:
tail light was not clearly seen from 45 degrees so he returned with a couple of tiny indicators with red lenses as a stop and tail mounted in the middle of guard of his seat hold down bolt. it passed no problem. NOTHING was said about the number plate being verticle and side mounted..........

yep. if he had done the tail ligt thing it would have been close, but no problem with side mounted number plates..

i'm also talking with someone who has had a court case for the same offence and got off in court, so i'm trying to get the case number for a precendent... it was also a side mount on a motorcycle...

so i'm pretty good that it will go through, but as stated before.... maybe it wont get to court, maybe someone will see the scence in this somewhere?!

anyway , i'm getting to grips on the accual "law" part and will lay it out proper for all when done..

cheers guys.

afro
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PostSubject: Re: REGISTRATION PLATE NOT DISPLAYED IN CORRECT MANNER   Mon Nov 15, 2010 10:57 pm

I've talked to nzta recently bout the 1995 law, they refuse to clearly clarify the 'upright' definition, & say it is an 'enforcement issue'.(police discretion).
I gather that the INTENT of the law (which is the most important thing) is to prevent plate mounting where the angle of the plate (as in angle of the side profile of the plate) (aka plate tipped forwards) is angled so much that an officer cant read the plate. The intent is to prevent people who deliberately angle their plate tipped towards the front of the bike, so that it's hard to read, so that they can avoid being ticketed for speeding. So you need to make it clear that this sort of mounting is in no way designed to avoid being ticketed, that it is simply the practical way to mount a plate when you have this style of bike (ie. one with a 'clean' rear fender).
Also if there is any argument about the plate not being totally vertical: if it's totally vertical it will not be illuminated properly by the numberplate light, it is slightly angled to allow the plate to be lit properly, which is a requirement.
It sounds like you will be well armed, good on you mate!
From what I understand there could be quite a bit of toing & froing in the court debate, so would be good to be ready for all that.
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PostSubject: Re: REGISTRATION PLATE NOT DISPLAYED IN CORRECT MANNER   Mon Nov 15, 2010 11:03 pm

hey there is one other way to deal with it, (but I dont see why people should have to) & that's order the 'square' plate with upright letters. They cost $9 and you have to order them at VTNZ etc, you come back & swap plates when they arrive.

But if someone says they cant read the numbers when it's side mounted then they must be retarded & should be put in a home for retards & not be out enforcing laws.
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PostSubject: Re: REGISTRATION PLATE NOT DISPLAYED IN CORRECT MANNER   Mon Nov 15, 2010 11:15 pm

cheers Brett.. al good , i've got heaps of paperwork already... its piling up..

but but if anyone knows a good specific type laywer i wouldnt mind bouncing a couple of ideas.. i pretty much know where i'm heading but need to confirm...

i dont want to loose because this could set a precedent so have to be super carefull... if i win, we all need to know how to combat it.. it wont make an ioata to the cops... they will still try, but at least you will be informed..

cheers
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PostSubject: Re: REGISTRATION PLATE NOT DISPLAYED IN CORRECT MANNER   Mon Nov 15, 2010 11:42 pm

Would someone like Charles Lamb be helpful? He's done a lot of research in motorcycle crashes, maybe he knows about compliance as well?
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PostSubject: Re: REGISTRATION PLATE NOT DISPLAYED IN CORRECT MANNER   Tue Nov 16, 2010 10:07 am

hey Im with Irish with the contributions thing, if u want some help that way with paying a lawyer Im happy to contribute (as we all know I have a vested interest in you winning this, and like you say, it's important for all of us that you win it. otherwise customizing could get very restrictive...tip of the iceberg type thing).
also, in your case you have made every effort to be legal, so it's really unjust that u got picked on. so needs to be fought & won.
i personally feel that pinning down the INTENT of the law is very important - and that you weren't in any way trying to break that intent (avoid speeding infringements).
let me know Jon & keep me posted please.
and find a good clever lawyer mate !
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PostSubject: Re: REGISTRATION PLATE NOT DISPLAYED IN CORRECT MANNER   Tue Nov 16, 2010 11:32 pm

Hey guys, one would think that BRONZ would have a mouthpeace interested in this bit of skullduggery that has been perpetrated upon the righteous, would'nt one?????
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PostSubject: Re: REGISTRATION PLATE NOT DISPLAYED IN CORRECT MANNER   Wed Nov 17, 2010 3:12 pm

Good thinking Bob51, missed that one.. but i'm well on the way...

Cheers guys for the thoughts and comments, yes it will be interesting, there are many things to take into account.

I have spoken to a very helpful person who is very knowledgeable about the situation and procedures I need to take and on this instance is willing to guide me through the process with the correct way to approach (not Jon getting upset) and present the right and relevant information at the correct and appropriate time.

Just a note... there have been successful previous defences to the same offence notice in the recent past.

We will be taking this carefully one step at a time...

study
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PostSubject: Re: REGISTRATION PLATE NOT DISPLAYED IN CORRECT MANNER   Mon Dec 06, 2010 5:04 pm

Hi all, well an update, I have a court date set, Jan 2011

I now have more wording as to the direction of his case and its nothing about the plate itself or angle, upright or anything it’s to do with seen from the rear, he said I was in lane 2 and he was in lane 3 and that when he looked he couldn’t see it, obstructed from the rear.

Well, all day, it’s easily seen from the rear... he wouldn’t have had a problem if he dropped back or was behind me in lane 2.

I will keep you updated as we go...

Cool
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PostSubject: Re: REGISTRATION PLATE NOT DISPLAYED IN CORRECT MANNER   Mon Dec 06, 2010 5:32 pm

Thanks Jon. I was out on the Yam with the side mount plate yesterday and was anxious everytime I saw a cop car. It didn't seem to worry all the pricks that were weaving in an out of lanes and cutting everybody up in their crappy non insured, non registered and non wof'ed cars. Also they were ignoring all the pricks using cell phones including the one that cut Sara up while texting on two phones at once! I suppose they were all 10 times less likely to be in an accident compared to use. I despair at times, I really do.

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PostSubject: Re: REGISTRATION PLATE NOT DISPLAYED IN CORRECT MANNER   Mon Dec 06, 2010 8:17 pm

Hey guys i got pulled over again today after work, he was chasing me from a long way back, i turned right in the road i take to get home( my side mount is on the left) just as he caught up to me and the first thing he said when he got out of the car was wheres your plate? so i pointed to it and he asked for my licence and checked the reg and wof and said have a nice evening. he then said he thought i was someone else??? and away i went, no indicators, no front fender and side mount plate.

it looks like some cops are dangerously armed with not enough knowledge about the wof regs, the guy today had no probs with my bike.
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PostSubject: Re: REGISTRATION PLATE NOT DISPLAYED IN CORRECT MANNER   Wed Dec 08, 2010 2:33 pm

yep

Twisted Evil
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PostSubject: Re: REGISTRATION PLATE NOT DISPLAYED IN CORRECT MANNER   Mon Dec 27, 2010 10:09 am

My turn

Cops, dont know shit. For example, i have an airbagged ute, got green stickered couple months ago. I convinced him the the airbags and inch bright blue airlines up front were actually torsion bars and the rear 'wasnt active' and the switch box was 'just for looks'.
IDIOT. Shocked
i have never had a totally legal car, and now bike, i never get many troubles, maybe just good luck that ive had. A friend of mine is a pig, he pink stickers dudes under 100mm even if there certified (you are allowed to be under 100mm if certified) if whoever he is stickering/ticketing is being a cocky asshole.
To be honest, i would love to sticker up some little fuckers cars.
This is not the point.
Point is, them pigs get away with pretty much everything on this side of things.
Take it all the way. Nothing dangerous about a fucking license plate.
oh also i remember some dudes in the mini truckin scene getting alotta trouble from the filth for having there plates mounted on an angle ?
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