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 REGISTRATION PLATE NOT DISPLAYED IN CORRECT MANNER

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Slaytanica
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PostSubject: Re: REGISTRATION PLATE NOT DISPLAYED IN CORRECT MANNER   Mon Dec 27, 2010 11:45 am

If you can pass the attitude test first you will probably be sent off with a warning, boy racers and people that look like boy racers or drive a certain type of vehicle will no doubt be guilty till proven innocent but if they are polite and friendly the outcome will prob surprise them.

unfortunatly we all like to have an image or group we like to fit in, weather it be boy racers with their cap on backwards in noisey hondas driving around town like they are on the nurburgring, or us cruizing around on noisey low slung bobbers, bogans, goths, homies, greasers etc etc. we are all guilty of it everytime we wear a label.

The cops are just doing their job its not a personal attack on anyone, just business. i got off rolling through a stop sign at 25kph because i was polite , he told me i went thru at 25 and i told him i was sorry i was trying to figure out where i was cause i was looking for a mates street and assumed it was a give way, he said ok its right on the limit make sure i stop next time. and off i went, the limit for a stop sign is 0kph so it shows they have the option to take it further or let off with a warning.

thats enought from me i need to finish wiring my bike
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The_Lone_Rider
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PostSubject: Re: REGISTRATION PLATE NOT DISPLAYED IN CORRECT MANNER   Mon Dec 27, 2010 2:37 pm

Slaytanica wrote:
the limit for a stop sign is 0kph so it shows they have the option to take it further or let off with a warning.

thats enought from me i need to finish wiring my bike

For a bike, it's 0kmph and both feed having been planted flat to the ground.
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Slaytanica
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PostSubject: Re: REGISTRATION PLATE NOT DISPLAYED IN CORRECT MANNER   Mon Dec 27, 2010 6:32 pm

The_Lone_Rider wrote:
Slaytanica wrote:
the limit for a stop sign is 0kph so it shows they have the option to take it further or let off with a warning.

thats enought from me i need to finish wiring my bike

For a bike, it's 0kmph and both feed having been planted flat to the ground.

didnt know about the feet part, thats a bit of a trap for young players
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The_Lone_Rider
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PostSubject: Re: REGISTRATION PLATE NOT DISPLAYED IN CORRECT MANNER   Mon Dec 27, 2010 6:44 pm

Nah it's fine. In a riding license test, you have to come to a complete stop at STOP signs. It's an instant fail if both feet do not come to the ground and the bike is not stopped at a stop sign. By the time you get your full, you should hopefully have known that having possibly failed the test as least once.
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jon61
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PostSubject: Re: REGISTRATION PLATE NOT DISPLAYED IN CORRECT MANNER   Tue Apr 26, 2011 9:52 pm

Well, I won... it’s all about interpretation of the law... isn’t anything!

Tuff day at the office, had allot of behind the scenes help, thanks to you all...

I represented myself, cross examined, put forward my case, stood in the box, gave my account, got questioned, shoot, over 2 ½ hours...
It was hard, because the police were clever, quite vague in the charge; failing to display number plate in prescribed manner... they charged me: Section 17 (a) Transport (Vehicle and Driver Registration and Licensing) Act 1986, No 6 (as at 01 December 2009), and Public Act.
Section 17, Unauthorised, deceptive, or obscured registration plates or unauthorised licence
Every person commits an offence and is liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding $500 who—
(d) Uses any motor vehicle while any registration plate or licence affixed to the motor vehicle in accordance with this Part of this Act is in any way obscured, or is rendered or allowed to become not easily distinguishable, whether by night or by day.

And Section 14, Form of registration plates and licences
(1) The Minister may from time to time, by notice in the Gazette,—
(b) Prescribe the number of registration plates to be displayed and the position or positions in which registration plates and licences are to be displayed

It wasn’t too clear and still gave not to many clues....
1. Sideways mounted, not in an upright manner
2. Not on the rear of the vehicle
3. Obstructed
So I had to cover all bases, it was a guessing game until they started and placed their case...

Please note, my bike was modifies, I have a WoF, LVV plate and was built to be legal and safe...
I used this as I tried to do everything right.
In the end they also came out with: Transport (Vehicle Registration and Licensing) Notice 1995 (SR 1995/136) (as at 01 August 2008)
Affixing of registration plates (other than trade plates)
6 (b) in the case of any motorcycle, moped, tractor, or trailer, one plate shall be displayed on the rear of the vehicle in an upright position and so displayed that every letter, figure, and distinguishing mark on the plate is easily visible.

I had some photos of Police BMW Motorcycles that have obstructed number plates at a very similar angle that the police took my pictures... get your camera out; there are thousands of boat, horse, Jet Ski, and STD trailers with sideways mounted number plates mounted on polls, mudguards, etc... Is the public wrong or are the police just targeting motorcycles?

As to mounting sideways, I submitted dictionary lists for upright. A definition:

Uprightness - verticality: position at right angles to the horizon.
In a vertical position; not sloping.
UPRIGHT, ERECT, VERTICAL, PERPENDICULAR IMPLY that something is in the posture of being straight upward, not leaning.
Etc. There is nothing about lettering being upright.
I did fail this as my plate was on a lean as to get better light onto it..

Plate not at the rear, there was no safe mounting point any further back, that would be safe, so it was as rear ward as possible...

So to summarise, yes I would mount another plate like this...

My understanding now is...
It can be sideways.
It must be vertical from the ground.
It must be seen clearly from the rear.
It must be mounted as rearward as safely possible.

So watch those points of law, that’s what will cover you, not Wof & LVV certs, they help but don’t cover that stuff... don’t count for anything at all when it comes to this, except you’ve tried...
Thing is, that Joe Blogs hasn’t access to this info unless you know it’s there, use it wisely...

Although it still won’t be easy, they will still target motorcycles, the officer is a motorways instructor and they thought they had it in the bag, they have won before and they tried to use those examples... must admit, he shook my hand afterward...

A good debate, Cos I won...
Cool
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brett7777
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PostSubject: Re: REGISTRATION PLATE NOT DISPLAYED IN CORRECT MANNER   Tue Apr 26, 2011 10:04 pm

WELL DONE.
hey, one point, many bike setups have them on a lean purely so you shine the numberplate light on them better, seems silly to make it totally vertical but then it not be lit up at nite properly?
so you won anyway even tho yours wasnt completely vertical, is that right?
hey is the stuff you've given us here basically a precedent to use for any future hassles from the type of cop you encountered? is this all the info we need or is there more that would help, ie. case name, date, etc?
thanx Jon, & good on you for sticking it thru to a good result
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brett7777
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PostSubject: Re: REGISTRATION PLATE NOT DISPLAYED IN CORRECT MANNER   Wed Apr 27, 2011 9:31 am

I PROBABLY OWE YOU A BEER

or a decaf tea

Laughing
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Irishjon
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PostSubject: Re: REGISTRATION PLATE NOT DISPLAYED IN CORRECT MANNER   Wed Apr 27, 2011 11:30 am

Congratulations Jon. Bloody good job on behalf of all of us. It's too easy to pick on motorcyclists and we can't let them get away with it. Thanks mate.

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Slaytanica
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PostSubject: Re: REGISTRATION PLATE NOT DISPLAYED IN CORRECT MANNER   Wed Apr 27, 2011 12:06 pm

good work mate, a victory for us all
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PostSubject: Re: REGISTRATION PLATE NOT DISPLAYED IN CORRECT MANNER   Wed Apr 27, 2011 4:32 pm

Cheers, I’m going to try and get a copy of the transcript?

And will also speak to someone about tidying this up so we have a better understanding, then if I can, post my case so it can be used for our purposes to aid future, infringement or prosecutions, it seems to be ok for the police to use it to their advantage when they win, I don’t want mine to go to waste...

Cheers all.

Cool
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PostSubject: Re: REGISTRATION PLATE NOT DISPLAYED IN CORRECT MANNER   Wed Apr 27, 2011 5:11 pm

Excellent Jon, Well done bud.
cheers cheers cheers
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Irishjon
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PostSubject: Re: REGISTRATION PLATE NOT DISPLAYED IN CORRECT MANNER   Wed Apr 27, 2011 6:46 pm

Good idea to post it Jon. I'll make it a sticky on here.

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PostSubject: Re: REGISTRATION PLATE NOT DISPLAYED IN CORRECT MANNER   Wed Apr 27, 2011 10:42 pm

Irishjon wrote:
Good idea to post it Jon. I'll make it a sticky on here.

Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
bounce bounce bounce
cheers cheers cheers
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PostSubject: Re: REGISTRATION PLATE NOT DISPLAYED IN CORRECT MANNER   Wed May 04, 2011 8:49 pm

you should have no probs getting a hansard transcript of the proceedings from the registrar at the courthouse. And congrats on a memorable victory, Jon.javascript:emoticonp('Very Happy')
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PostSubject: Re: REGISTRATION PLATE NOT DISPLAYED IN CORRECT MANNER   Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:14 am



Ticket; REGISTRATION PLATE NOT DISPLAYED IN CORRECT MANNER

Honestly, I was pissed, I had done my bike legal and I wasn’t going to pay $200 if it meant I was admitting I was wrong! Bugger it, I’m off to Court!

The matter before the court is one of, that you committed an offence under s 17 (a) Transport (Vehicle and Driver Registration and Licensing) Act 1986 and that you did use a motor vehicle on which the registration plate or number plate was not displayed in the correct manner.

Law says... (Lots but this is the guts) In the case of any motorcycle, moped, tractor, or trailer, one plate shall be displayed on the rear of the vehicle in an upright position and so displayed that every letter, figure, and distinguishing mark on the plate is easily visible

There were three things they could try for, they were not too disclosing prior to my case as to which it was;
1. Not clearly seen, obstructed
2. Not in an upright position
3. Not at the rear of the motorcycle

Basics of my argument:
That it was as to the rear of the vehicle as possible, that was safe and visible, also that there is law that covers dangerous fittings and that mounted high the number plate could be such as it is thin and has an un-safe edge.

That there is no description in law that states that number plates have to be mounted any which way other that upright, which in terminology is vertical or erect (check any Dictionary) mine was on a slight angle to allow the light to focus on it better, although I’d mount it better (still the same but more upright) next time. (Nothing about letters).

I had taken the bike through the northern toll road and it showed up on my work bill, so was easily read (sideways) but they omitted that as I couldn’t prove I didn’t change it for the exercise! (Learn from that one, get a picture (might even get a speed camera one, you get a picture then, if you win, can that be claimed back as costs?)

That the vehicle had Rego, Cert and WoF, that this fell under none of those, none of these people advised me there was something wrong, how would I as Joe Blogs Know the Law, I had a letter from the Cert and WoF guys saying such. It seems that it is only individual interpretation under the law (police) (learn from that one)

I submitted photos of trailers (boat and horse), trucks, motorcycles etc with sideway mounted plates, new and old, also NZ Police BMW’s with recessed obstructed plates from the same angle (although now I’ve noticed they have sorted that one), police tried to omit these by saying a whole lot of stuff but basically a parting comment was along the lines, were going to stop and deal with them, given the time! (Bet that just means bikes)

There was a lot more too it, but that’s the basics…

By the way, there is nothing about 45⁰ or angle viewing for plates, that’s just lighting laws.

All in all, I represented myself, it took 2 ½ hours but many tens of hours prep.

The decision; The Court decision is the case was not proved beyond reasonable doubt, thus the defendant is discharged.

*** I won *** cheers cheers

If you get a ticket, you have 28 days to write in to appeal; all you can do is write in explaining:

1. It’s as far to the rear and as safely fitted as possible.
2. That you have a WoF and Rego, they didn’t stipulate any issues as to mounting plates.
3. That it’s fitted in an upright manner and that it can be easily seen from the rear of the vehicle.
4. And feel free to also list my case precedent: New Zealand Police V Pearson DC AK CRI-2010-004-021568

Now take this advice, it’s a precedent set in the District Court, it’s not very high like the Supreme or High court but the police tried to use a DC precedent against me in there and it didn’t hold.

And yes! I will continue to mount my number plates this way in the future.

Just don’t get pissy at the officer for pulling you!

Remember you’re fighting your own tax dollars and NZ’s biggest patched gang Cool

Best of luck & God Speed.

Cool





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PostSubject: Re: REGISTRATION PLATE NOT DISPLAYED IN CORRECT MANNER   Fri Jul 20, 2012 2:02 pm

Your a legend mate thanks for all the info, I HAVE A FEELING THIS IS GOING TO COME IN VERY HANDY. Wink
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PostSubject: Re: REGISTRATION PLATE NOT DISPLAYED IN CORRECT MANNER   Sat Jul 21, 2012 11:09 pm

Very Happy Yeah, well done, Jon. But seriously, mate, what is it about you that attracts these bastards. Suspect ??. Is it just your natural charm, or are you wearing honey aftershave, or what ?? Laughing lol!
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PostSubject: Re: REGISTRATION PLATE NOT DISPLAYED IN CORRECT MANNER   Wed Jul 25, 2012 8:20 pm

Jeez that's taken a long time Jon. Well done. Does that mean you're going to chop the Triumph?

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PostSubject: Re: REGISTRATION PLATE NOT DISPLAYED IN CORRECT MANNER   Thu Jul 26, 2012 8:44 am

Trumpet family wagon gone! will be looking for a RKing or something for me and the mrs for summer..

just working on a new project bike... something like this.. http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=496157698

KFC has the Double Down back.. random i know but good! haha

Cool

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PostSubject: Re: REGISTRATION PLATE NOT DISPLAYED IN CORRECT MANNER   Fri Jul 27, 2012 12:15 pm

Bit expensive for half a Sportster. I think I paid 3500 for mine, complete and running.

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PostSubject: Re: REGISTRATION PLATE NOT DISPLAYED IN CORRECT MANNER   Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:39 pm

Just shoved up this picture of my new ride to show my thoughts....



Twisted Evil
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PostSubject: Re: REGISTRATION PLATE NOT DISPLAYED IN CORRECT MANNER   Wed Apr 15, 2015 8:53 pm

new bike , still legal What a Face



Cool
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PostSubject: Re: REGISTRATION PLATE NOT DISPLAYED IN CORRECT MANNER   Tue Oct 13, 2015 10:03 pm

INFRINGEMENT NOTICE FOR PLATE NOT MOUNTED IN PRESCRIBED MANNER

On the way back from Salt Lake Cycles in Helensville on 14 June 2015 I was stopped, doing nothing wrong, and issued with an infringement notice for number plate not being mounted in prescribed manner. I was polite and friendly and pointed out that this particular issue had already gone to court and did not go in favour of the police. I opted to go to court to challenge the $150 fine and twenty demerit points that comes with it.

I was also told on two seperate occaisions by the Police Infringement Bureau that I could be stopped again and issued with another fine and more demerits if I continued to ride my bike on the road.

Case was heard today 13 October 2015 North Shore District Court infringement notice V2042934 Martin vs Police. I WON
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PostSubject: Re: REGISTRATION PLATE NOT DISPLAYED IN CORRECT MANNER   Wed Oct 14, 2015 8:30 am

Firstly, well done.. good on you for going to court to defend it and having the infringement notice overturned, I wonder how many aspiring young bike builders out there don't know this is a defendable infringement.

I'm curious as to how your plate is mounted? is it side mounted like Jon's in the picture, if so is it vertical to the ground?

This could possibly be the NZ Police, (or some officers at least) not updating their knowledge of their own legislation... surely after having a case overturned in the courts an amendment to that section would have been issued?

Coops
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PostSubject: Re: REGISTRATION PLATE NOT DISPLAYED IN CORRECT MANNER   Wed Oct 14, 2015 1:02 pm

Thanks.

Plate is mounted exactly same manner and place as Jon's. Jon spent a bit of time coaching me in preparation for the court case, big cheers to Jon.

There has been some thought as to the issuiing of the infringement notice being a pet project for one particular officer. I think the message from the court has put paid to this and the waste of time all round that it causes. The JPs were aware of other similar cases that did not go in favour of the police. Chalk up another one.
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